How To Motivate

about this episode

"It's hard to beat a person who never gives up" Babe Ruth

episode transcribed

Todd Burnham 0:00
Hi, this is Todd Burnham. I am a licensed practicing attorney. But just because you're listening to me doesn't mean that I represent you. This is for informational purposes only if you're good with that, then let's roll.

Chris Braden 0:20
Season One was about how Todd Burnham started Burnham Law in his basement and built it to one of the most prestigious law firms in Colorado by thinking outside of the box and surrounding himself with the best lawyers and staff in the industry. Now during a pandemic Burnham Law is still growing. How you ask? Walk toward the storm and face it head on and you empower the people that help get you there. It's time to execute. It's time to make some lemonade. It's time to burn the ships. This is Deep Bench with Todd Burnham. Hey, Todd, how's it going, buddy?

Todd Burnham 0:57
What's up, dude? How? How many we have here, Chris? What are we up to?

Chris Braden 1:01
This is number seven of the second season. And it's funny because I don't know if you want me to let the cat out of the bag. We got some special guests coming up to

Todd Burnham 1:10
Yeah, go ahead.

Chris Braden 1:11
We've got I think three attorneys set up. And I think we've tried to get Sarah on multiple times last year and she was able to dodge it and so we're gonna have her this year.

Todd Burnham 1:23
Yeah, she's, she's interesting, man. You're gonna

Chris Braden 1:26
I love talking to her. I gotta be honest with you, man. She's fun, man. And she is not afraid to speak her mind. That's for sure.

Todd Burnham 1:32
No, and she'll know that's I think that's critical, man. You know, that's really good. Like, that's what you want. You don't want Yes, people around you. You want like people that are gonna call you out and challenge you on your thinking?

Chris Braden 1:45

Todd Burnham 1:46

Chris Braden 1:46
Like she's definitely someone that will call you on your BS.

Todd Burnham 1:49
Love it. Yeah, that's effective.

Chris Braden 1:51
So since we're gonna have the three attorneys on and Sarah, I wanted to talk about motivation all of season one was basically

Todd Burnham 1:59
Wait a second, what three attorneys? You got Stephanie?

Chris Braden 2:01

Todd Burnham 2:01
Yep. That's two.

Chris Braden 2:03
Stephanie, Aaron and Ashley.

Todd Burnham 2:05
You're gonna do Ashley, nice.

Chris Braden 2:06

Todd Burnham 2:07
Ashley's uh She's like a you know you should do is, Ashley's awesome. You know, you should do is interview Kristin Weaver.

Chris Braden 2:13

Todd Burnham 2:13
She is a young new attorney here. Who is I think we're all really excited about

Chris Braden 2:22
And you can learn a lot about these people once you listen to their episode to cuz I'm gonna be talking about you probably.

Todd Burnham 2:27
Well, interesting be talking about how to motivate people. Right?

Chris Braden 2:30

Todd Burnham 2:30
First rule is you've got to educate yourself.

Chris Braden 2:33

Todd Burnham 2:34
You've got to like, invest in their lives.

Chris Braden 2:36

Todd Burnham 2:36
So I think that she she is supervised by Danielle Davis. Okay. And Danielle's is a great has a great mentoring spirit. And she's like our, one of our newer partners. And so like, when I talked to her, she like Chris, Kristin had like a big win a couple weeks ago. Just crushed a case. And so we sent out this thing, like, you know, this what Kristen did, and she was so proud of her.

Chris Braden 3:00

Todd Burnham 3:01
And talking to Danielle, like, I made sure that she knows how to invest. So you're teaching people

Chris Braden 3:06

Todd Burnham 3:07
how to lead.

Chris Braden 3:07

Todd Burnham 3:08
And the first thing you have to do is give a damn.

Chris Braden 3:11

Todd Burnham 3:12
Rule number one.

Chris Braden 3:13
Show appreciation.

Todd Burnham 3:14
Yeah. But I mean, like, even know about their lives, like, what motivates them? What's important to them? What do they want to accomplish? What are their goals? You know? And to a certain extent, what are their what's their home life like? What are what are the things that you know, that they're struggling with? Be someone that's going to add value. I think that's the first, the only way seek to understand before being understood.

Chris Braden 3:36

Todd Burnham 3:36
So you got to understand the people that you're with. And, and that means investing your time and your heart into the people that that you work with. That's it, wrapping it up.

Chris Braden 3:47
That's the motivation right there. It's funny, I learned something yesterday. So I had, I had to ask a question about my older daughter's... it was some wedding question or whatever. And it was just an ancillary question, but the person I had to call was like, really busy all the time. So she finally called me back and I was like, hey, thanks. What's your email? And I said, Taco Bell has this app. Yeah, we can just send a taco. Oh, nice. Like two bucks. Yeah. Sent her a taco. Like hey, man, thanks. I really appreciate it. I was like, I wonder what kind of response I'm gonna get. She loved it. Right. It's like literally nothing. Yeah, I just sent her like, a taco from Taco Bell.

Todd Burnham 4:25

Chris Braden 4:25
And I'm like, Dude, that's in my repertoire right now. Everyone's getting tacos all the time, man. This is this is good.

Todd Burnham 4:31
Um, well,

Chris Braden 4:31
Shows appreciation

Todd Burnham 4:32
It does

Chris Braden 4:33
I notice. Thank you.

Todd Burnham 4:35
Okay, don't send me a taco. I don't need that crap.

Chris Braden 4:38
I know you don't. Yeah, but if I sent you a taco it would just be a token of my appreciation.

Todd Burnham 4:43
I appreciate that and then I'll give it to someone I want to have a coronary.

Chris Braden 4:46

Todd Burnham 4:48
Just kidding.

Chris Braden 4:50
So motivation, it's funny because the whole first season was about motivation. And we had a lot of athlete quotes and stuff. And so I was looking for motivational things and Here's one that's old school, and I think it kind of resonates with you. Babe Ruth said this, it says, it's hard to beat a person who never gives up.

Todd Burnham 5:09
Oh my god. Did he say that?

Chris Braden 5:10

Todd Burnham 5:11
I thought that was like, I mean, that's,

Chris Braden 5:13
I mean, I'm sure there's a million variations from other athletes. But that's actually Babe Ruth.

Todd Burnham 5:18
And the thing that I always say is, if you won't fail if you don't quit, same concepts, and I always, always talk about it's a mindset. But it really is. If we're in a fight.

Chris Braden 5:30

Todd Burnham 5:31
And you know that I'm not going to quit. It's like Apollo Creed and Rocky Balboa. The dude kept getting up.

Chris Braden 5:37
He's like, dude. Stop, it man.

Todd Burnham 5:38
He's like, come on. The look on Apollo's face is like, Are you kidding me?

Chris Braden 5:43

Todd Burnham 5:43
So, I mean, those are things that you just I think that you're you learn over time, or you're just not built that way.

Chris Braden 5:51

Todd Burnham 5:51
It's just that easy. Some people just want it easy. I think though, that's great. Have a have a good life. I, I just, I just embrace the grind.

Chris Braden 6:00
Well, and you've talked about this, when you talked about your buddy got moving up to varsity, and you're like, boom, that's motivation for you. And I think as a good leader,

Todd Burnham 6:08

Chris Braden 6:08
You have to realize not everybody is motivated the same way. You are.

Todd Burnham 6:14
Totally, you have to find those points in people that, you know, we talked about those Clifton Strengths the other day.

Chris Braden 6:20

Todd Burnham 6:21
So mine is competition. Yours is belief.

Chris Braden 6:23

Todd Burnham 6:23
You know, I bet your apples to oranges that Stephanie Randall's is belief also.

Chris Braden 6:28

Todd Burnham 6:29
I'm not going to motivate her by saying you got to get better, you know, I gotta be the best at this, she's naturally going to be the best at this because she believes in something bigger than herself. And as you transition to different leadership in this firm, it has pieces of me,

Chris Braden 6:44

Todd Burnham 6:44
but it becomes more of Stephanie's and more of Eric's and, and more of the people that are here on a day to day basis that are running it like so. Aaron's is is not going to be you know, an Aaron is a scholar.

Chris Braden 6:58

Todd Burnham 6:59
So that's a different thing.

Chris Braden 7:01

Todd Burnham 7:01
so. But I also know, most, if not everyone, most of the people here, I know who they are.

Chris Braden 7:09

Todd Burnham 7:10
And so like, we were just talking to one person that you listened in on and it was a challenging conversation as I'm trying to motivate, right? And sometimes the motivation has to be, it's not about trying to help the person get better. It's challenging them to stop doing what they're doing. It's like

Chris Braden 7:32
setting a tone or have to strike a line in the sand. But that's enough. You know, like,

Todd Burnham 7:37
Dude, you're not, that's not effective. I remember BJ O'Hara. Did I tell you? My eyesight in my memory, man. They're all going. BJ O'Hara once told me he's a my lacrosse coach at Hobart. And we talked a little bit about my college, it was played lacrosse, but I was wasn't focused.

Chris Braden 7:57

Todd Burnham 7:57
And I think I I had, I don't know, an altercation at a bar. Right? And he heard about it. And he told me said Burnham I'm gonna cut you out like a cancer.

Chris Braden 8:09

Todd Burnham 8:10
Right? He told me that and I'm like, hold on, man. Like, I'm an All American. No, like, what do you mean? You're gonna cut me out? And and of course, and it was I wasn't ready for the message. I look back nowadays and and I'm like, man, if youth is wasted on the young,

Chris Braden 8:27

Todd Burnham 8:28
I wish I would. I wish I woulda shoulda, coulda. But he motivated me because it was fear based. That was the only thing that would reach me at the time. It's kind of like what you heard over here, like just a few moments ago on the phone. And that's not effective for everyone.

Chris Braden 8:45

Todd Burnham 8:45
Fear based is really your last resort. It's like, I've tried this, I've tried this, I've tried this. I am failing you. And then if I can't reach you, then then we can't do anything here.

Chris Braden 8:58

Todd Burnham 8:59
You know, so motivating peoples first requires a significant investment in your, in your heart, and to someone. You can't fake this stuff. No. And so if you are invested, and they genuinely know that you legitimately care about their lives, right, I have we in this I was thinking today that we have a criminal division that is really being run by one person. And I'm like, Why isn't like I want to go talk to her and tell her like, man, this is an opportunity.

Chris Braden 9:32

Todd Burnham 9:33
Aaron was just made partner with civil, you know, we have DR partners, we have personal injury partners. We don't have a criminal partner. This is an opportunity

Chris Braden 9:41
That's wide open.

Todd Burnham 9:41
Wide open. So I'm like, I'm gonna go talk to her she's in the springs and because I care,

Chris Braden 9:47

Todd Burnham 9:47
I know her and I, I just think about I think about the investment and and they have people have to know that it's authentic. If I'm like, coming in all polished and Let me talk to you about your aspirations. You know, like, Hey, man, what do you want to do? What are you doing here? Yeah, what do you want. And some people might want one just want the comfort and safety of a job and having a good salary that you get raises, and you're doing good work. But I just want to challenge people to want more in their lives.

Chris Braden 10:18

Todd Burnham 10:19
And the double edge of the sword here is that, you want that, and you also want them to stay. So the thing is, I don't want you to go and start your own thing. Because I think what you'll have here, if you do the things that you're capable of, you're going to do better here in all aspects than you would on your own. And also letting people I legitimately want people to have successful lives and financial security and stability and take care of their families and all that because I believe it. I mean, it's true. I'm not lying, you know. So investing in people is interesting, because you also have to have, like a have a balance between having being close to people, and also having a little bit of distance. So there's professional respect.

Chris Braden 11:07

Todd Burnham 11:07
You go out drinking with your people that you work with too much. And that line is, is blurred. And I don't think that's effective, either.

Chris Braden 11:16
You know that one thing too, when you have one of those heated discussions, when you finally get there. If you really didn't care about the person or care about the outcome of it, it would never come to that.

Todd Burnham 11:29
No, we'd just be like, Okay, someone else take that job. Yeah, you know?

Chris Braden 11:32
Exactly, which is, which makes it good and bad. You know what I mean?

Todd Burnham 11:36
Yeah, I mean, but But if, if it's a big difference with someone that's been here, two years, versus someone that just got here, if I already see these red flags, and these are problems that we're having already, then, you know, your first loss is your best loss.

Chris Braden 11:51

Todd Burnham 11:51
And so that probably is a bad fit. If you can't make it work. And if you're not communicating about your struggles, it's one thing if someone's struggling, and they're communicating about it, then you want to help

Chris Braden 12:02

Todd Burnham 12:03
Like, you're asking for help, like, Yes, I'm going to invest in you and my my time, and it's another thing if they're just like, kind of coming in checking in checking out creating drama, drama has no place here, there's enough drama in what we do. And

Chris Braden 12:19
Oh my goodness, yeah.

Todd Burnham 12:20
And so drama in the workplace, this is it, this has to be tight, it has to be people that are, you know, surrounded by people that are trust each other. And then they go home to their their lives. You know, and, and having that, that security and stability. And I think, you know, I know, there's several people that probably don't buy into it yet, but they're doing their jobs.

Chris Braden 12:39

Todd Burnham 12:40
And so there's, if you just be open to it enough that people will come to it, and rely on it over time, because they just speak to other people. They're like, yeah, no, Todd's the truth. He's not lying. Like, it's real. I'm not, not like just saying this stuff.

Chris Braden 12:57
How tied together is motivation and morale? Because I know you do things I've been to your Christmas parties, everyone has a great job, or a great time there. And it's just a blast, like, and you do that stuff for morale. Like, how closely tied is morale and motivation in your mind?

Todd Burnham 13:15
Wow. I mean, that's really a hard one, like playing stump the suitor with me.

Chris Braden 13:20
Right. Because I think they kind of go hand in hand. Because if you have high morale, it's easy to motivate.

Todd Burnham 13:27
Well, if you have high morale, then there's a lot there's, it's easy to recognize self motivation.

Chris Braden 13:33

Todd Burnham 13:33
Right? It's not it's not my job to motivate people. If there's high morale. I think that the the office itself for the people around you are, are helping you motivate in general.

Chris Braden 13:45
And you're motivating each other.

Todd Burnham 13:46
You're motivating each other. You're playing up.

Chris Braden 13:48

Todd Burnham 13:48
And so it's like Nate Sprong, you're playing up. I'm trying to, I'm trying to be like Nathan Sprong in that situation playing lacrosse, like, he got asked to go to play varsity for a game like, Alright, I'm gonna go do 1000 wall balls, like, what's the thing that's self motivated?

Chris Braden 14:06
What do I need to do to get there?

Todd Burnham 14:07
What do I need to do to get there? So I think that motivating people, if there's high morale, that's great. If someone needs motivation, it's really coming back to that investment. And what's the thing that triggers them to motivate them? I mean, having having a good morale in workplace is awesome, I think it's imperative. But to motivate people to see what I see in them, you bring it into your mommy and daddy issues into this thing. All that stuff, and I, I've dealt with enough crap in my life that I can relate to so many people.

Chris Braden 14:43

Todd Burnham 14:44
Oh, you're self medicating a little bit. I've done that.

Chris Braden 14:47

Todd Burnham 14:48
Oh, you're you're having doubts about yourself. I've been there, you know. So I think that just being authentic is probably the thing that is, is the most important because you just can't fake caring about people. And people aren't gonna listen to your motivational stuff, if they don't believe in it, and believe in you.

Chris Braden 15:05
Sure. So using life lessons.

Todd Burnham 15:07
It's all we have man.

Chris Braden 15:09
That is true.

Todd Burnham 15:10
It's all we have.

Chris Braden 15:11
I never thought about it like that really.

Todd Burnham 15:12
I'm blessed to have had many.

Chris Braden 15:14
I get to share my bullshit.

Todd Burnham 15:16

Chris Braden 15:16
With you.

Todd Burnham 15:17
That's right.

Chris Braden 15:18
This is what and it's funny. It's like being a parent, you're like, when they go and make a mistake, you already know where it's going, like, my daughters and when they would do stuff. I'm like, yeah, no. Okay.

Todd Burnham 15:28
You know what I hate the most?

Chris Braden 15:30
It's so hard to watch them fail, but you have to let them sometimes.

Todd Burnham 15:33
Kind of let them fail. And also realize, like, my wife talks about this a lot is natural consequences. And I'm like, you ever see, Heaven Can Wait, with Warren Beatty, you know, when the angel steps in and takes him out of the accident that he would have gotten out of? Yep. But he pulls him out because he didn't want to be hurt. Yeah, look at all the drama that comes in that movie after that, right?

Chris Braden 15:52

Todd Burnham 15:53
It's the same deal. Like, what I don't like no, I think is just a cancer, to motivation, morale, all of it are people that are victims. And they don't recognize that they have a victim mentality.

Chris Braden 16:07

Todd Burnham 16:07
And that it's everyone else's fault. That's no bueno. Right? That is not effective.

Chris Braden 16:13

Todd Burnham 16:13
We've had people that have come back that were like that, they left came back and appreciated the message that we were trying to send and are extremely happy here now.

Chris Braden 16:26

Todd Burnham 16:26
So I want people to I want people to fail.

Chris Braden 16:29

Todd Burnham 16:30
And learn.

Chris Braden 16:31

Todd Burnham 16:31
This is a practice. It's not a perfect and, and if you don't have the mindset that you're like, Okay, I'm going to try to keep getting better. Oh, yeah. Look at that. I remember there's a buddy of mine. It was actually my sponsor, Wally Morris. He's a rock. He's like a rocket engineer.

Chris Braden 16:48
You know, he looked a rocket scientist for real rocket

Todd Burnham 16:51
engineer scientists. Yeah, for real. He actually just got a job in the academy, Air Force Academy.

Chris Braden 16:56
Oh, really?

Todd Burnham 16:56
Moving from the spring or from Arizona to here. And his wife and very close to and we did this. We were flipping houses in Albany, New York together. And there came a point when I started freaking out because like, oh my god, we got to get this thing of this house on the market. All this fear base.

Chris Braden 17:14

Todd Burnham 17:15
And I'm like, oh my god, we're just gonna paint this, we're gonna paint that this color and blah, blah, blah. And I just don't agree with this. And they, and it was so graceful the way that they helped me. Yeah, it was like, they sat me down with love. And they're like, What are you afraid of? You know, like, what are you afraid of? What's What's the worst that happens? That's what how I and I was like, oh, no, we're gonna lose all our money. So what? It's okay. Like, don't it's just because the the wall is painted purple doesn't mean that people aren't going to love the house.

Chris Braden 17:43

Todd Burnham 17:43
And I'm like, it's gonna be neutral color, you know? And they're like, No, it was over that it was that kind of stuff. And so like, I was just such it was, it was everything was new to me. And, and so the grace that they showed in those moments is what I try to pass on to other people. Like, it's okay, man. Like, don't take it so serious. Yeah. Right. Like, don't, don't play afraid. Like, don't, don't be afraid of everything, like, challenge yourself, think differently, be differently, you're going to screw up. It's okay. That's how you grow. Right? And that's why it's so uncomfortable for me right now is I just kind of in no man's land of in between the next thing and and I rely heavily on those experiences, and, and faith that I'm going to figure this out, or it's going to come to me that's going to feel real to me. And I'm certainly not feeling like a victim or anything like that.

Chris Braden 18:40
I'll share what I said to you. Between the episodes. It was funny because when you talk about you're looking for something I'm imagining being on the beach in Hawaii, and then you go to this coffee bar because they have great coffee in Hawaii. I don't know if you know this it's like freakin amazing.

Todd Burnham 18:55

Chris Braden 18:55
And you're like, Hey, man, this is great. Coffee. How many shops you got just one. Next thing? You know, Todd's involved. There's like 50 coffee stores.

Todd Burnham 19:03
If it's the best.

Chris Braden 19:05
Yeah, man. Just market this. Why aren't you telling anyone about this?

Todd Burnham 19:08
What's your problem, man?

Chris Braden 19:10
That's motivating in itself.

Todd Burnham 19:12
Right. That's what I look forward to it man. Like, who knows where it's what's gonna happen. But it's also going to be the same core principles of what I've been doing and just living trying to live like just an honest life.

Chris Braden 19:23
Yeah, now it's time. I know you love the law firm. But now maybe like, find something else that you'd love too?

Todd Burnham 19:29
That's in that's, that's exciting for me. You know?

Chris Braden 19:32
I look forward to that, too. I don't know what it is.

Todd Burnham 19:35

Chris Braden 19:35
But like, it's funny because you're in a stage of life where this is like, it's inspiring to a lot of people and I think it's pretty cool because you will find something like I have 100% faith and knowing that the next thing you do will be good. And I don't know. I know you well, but I don't know you that well.

Todd Burnham 19:52

Chris Braden 19:53
But I just know you from doing all these episodes with units. That's gonna be good.

Todd Burnham 19:57
I appreciate that man.

Chris Braden 19:58
Wife is like that, too. She's like Todd I know you're gonna figure it out, buddy. Yeah, she's okay. She's

Todd Burnham 20:03
Like, my, she's like my silent partner, she like, lets me figure this shit out myself half the time. And then she you know, it's also interesting because it's like, you know, sometimes I need to talk to someone about it. And then I'll get inside my head and be like, Well, man, I'm just all alone. I'm alone, I feel so alone and make everyone feels you know, like, I'm doing this myself, um, everything stacked against me like, hold slow your roll, man. Like, I get in those mindsets, too. And instead of being comfortable in the unknown,

Chris Braden 20:37

Todd Burnham 20:37
It's a fear pops up, you know, and to me, it's a lot of times it's just being quiet and just don't screw anything up right now that don't say anything that's gonna be stupid. What's the old saying? Like? It's better to not say anything. And everyone, people don't know.

Chris Braden 20:53

Todd Burnham 20:54
Rather than you saying put something everybody knows you're full of it. Right?

Chris Braden 20:58
Yeah. Let it marinate.

Todd Burnham 21:00
Let it marinate we're gonna, we'll see how long it takes it. It might take a long time, or it might take maybe tomorrow. But it's, it's a good practice for me and just having faith that I know. Whatever it is, it's going to be something that is meant to be.

Chris Braden 21:14

Todd Burnham 21:14
I was telling someone the other day like, Abraham Hicks is one of those books that I read early on, is the Law of Attraction. And one thing that I relate to and resonate with a lot of times is, is that the dichotomy between dropping the oars and stop paddling upstream, like go with the flow, but also being aware that you're manifesting where the flow is going.

Chris Braden 21:40

Todd Burnham 21:40
How you're, you're attract what you're attracting. So if you have negativity in your mind, and it's just constantly ruminating up there, and then everything sucks.

Chris Braden 21:50

Todd Burnham 21:50
And so you're gonna go to someplace that sucks. But if you are doing the work and you're staying positive, and you're just trusting it, then it usually flows where it's supposed to go. And that is and I'm not necessarily like I'm a spiritual person, I'm not a religious person. So I it's like that faith right of something bigger than myself. It's also this there's a natural flow of the universe of this stuff and if you can tap into it and and believe it even when it's inconvenient, I think these things work out and we're gonna find out because I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

Chris Braden 22:00
Well and it's like you can dictate direction and you can dictate your reaction you don't have control of the outcome sometimes.

Todd Burnham 22:35
Absolutely not.

Chris Braden 22:35
That's just the way it is.

Todd Burnham 22:36
And and that's why it's everything's an opportunity it doesn't mean that it's supposed to happen the way that you wanted it to it's supposed to happen because you know, we talked about this the good luck bad luck who knows? So oh, what bad luck! Eh maybe not. Oh what good luck? Eh maybe not.

Chris Braden 22:51
Let's find out.

Todd Burnham 22:52
Let's find out and just keep doing the next right thing and just stay positive. I think that's and positive and focused and with a burning desire. You know, I was reading something the other day I posted on Instagram was Pat Riley motivating people.

Chris Braden 23:05
Really good, Attica.

Todd Burnham 23:07
The eight minute water bucket, you know, he puts his head down and that's how bad you have to want it is lifting his head up out of that water bucket and taking that last breath of air.

Chris Braden 23:16

Todd Burnham 23:17
That's how bad I just want this life.

Chris Braden 23:19

Todd Burnham 23:20
I'm 48 I see these people drop in in their 60s or 70s You're not here forever. So let's make sure we make it count.

Chris Braden 23:28
Good stuff. Todd. Man. Keep motivating buddy.

Todd Burnham 23:31
Catch you later. Hey, thanks for listening. Make sure you subscribe and until next time, keep getting better.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai