Make the Tough Decision

about this episode

"The measure of intelligence is the ability to change" - Albert Einstein

episode transcribed

Todd Burnham 0:00
Hi, this is Todd Burnham. I am a licensed practicing attorney. But just because you're listening to me doesn't mean that I represent you. This is for informational purposes only if you're good with that, then let's roll.

Chris Braden 0:20
Season One was about how Todd Burnham started Burnham Law in his basement and built it to one of the most prestigious law firms in Colorado by thinking outside of the box and surrounding himself with the best lawyers and staff in the industry. Now during a pandemic Burnham Law is still growing. How you ask? Walk toward the storm and face it head on and you empower the people that help get you there. It's time to execute. It's time to make some lemonade. It's time to burn the ships. This is Deep Bench with Todd Burnham. Hey, Todd, how's it going, buddy?

Todd Burnham 0:57
What's up, Chris? How you doing, man?

Chris Braden 0:59
I'm doing good, man. We're doing this from the Springs office. Yes. Which is always good for me because I live here, right?

Todd Burnham 1:05
Oh, what a great text you got this morning like, Hey, man, I'm coming down to you. Exactly. Yes. I don't have to do that drive. Yeah, I'm going over doing a walkthrough of the springs office that we're purchasing in a month. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So I'm gonna go head over there. We should just I don't know. Walk around. I've never done it before. Okay. Yeah. Looks great. How much?

Chris Braden 1:30
Yeah, how much? And how many problems? Man Do I have to fix?

Todd Burnham 1:34
You guys have three months, like, get this shit done?

Chris Braden 1:36
You know, three months and COVID time? That's like, a week, right? You think?

Todd Burnham 1:41
Oh, man, come on. Is it done yet? I' haven't even closed. I want this thing done. It's crazy.

Chris Braden 1:47
Well, that's perfect for kind of the topic for today. I was gonna call it no one to cut bait. But I think we're gonna soften it because you're kind of a kinder, gentler, Todd burner. Yeah, I know when it's time for a change. And it's funny because we always do quotes in the description. And I was looking for quotes. And I couldn't find a good athlete quote, but I found this and this is from Albert Einstein. And he's a winner. And it says, the measure of intelligence is the ability to change. And I was funny, because I've been sitting here kind of waiting for you. Because he had a lot of meetings. I was like, that's a really cool quote, it makes you think, because it's like, so wide open. Yeah.

Todd Burnham 2:26
And change is like, I love change. I, it's like, if you're not changing, I feel like you're not growing.

Chris Braden 2:33

Todd Burnham 2:34
I just get on these. And like, the process of change, which is what I'm going through is hard.

Chris Braden 2:42
Mm hmm.

Todd Burnham 2:42
But I also I'm really focused on embracing it because I want to get better at x y&z.

Chris Braden 2:49

Todd Burnham 2:50
Every day, like the concept and the thing we talked about all the time is just keep getting better, and it's not related to just work.

Chris Braden 2:57

Todd Burnham 2:57
You know, I struggle with my son Archer, like half the time, like during this whole, the pandemic, it's, it's always been about, he always wanted me to play with him always wanted to do stuff with me. And, and now it's like, the other day said, like, Hey, man, let's go to bed. He goes, I don't want you. I want mommy, she's, she's better. And I'm like, you little down like, Okay, we're gonna go to, we're gonna go to Target we're gonna get hiccup we're gonna get Toothless, and I'm gonna, like buy your love and like, no, man. It's like you go, it's me being able to be present and realize that kids go through these ebbs and flows.

Chris Braden 3:33
No, it's true. You know, and it hurts sometimes, because they're honest. 100% Because my daughters have done that to me. And it's like a gut punch.

Todd Burnham 3:40
it No, I mean, it's it really is and, and then trying to be okay, we'll go find mommy. How about I read you 10 books tonight?

Chris Braden 3:50
Exactly. I got a good ones too. Right here.

Todd Burnham 3:52
Right? And it's and I remember something a long time ago that resonated with me last night. And it was if your kid says like, you know, I don't want to be with you or something, then you say something positive like, Okay, well, I'm just gonna have to love you more.

Chris Braden 4:09

Todd Burnham 4:09
And in those moments, and when I'm like, Oh, dude, but I just spent all this you know, I did this, this and this and I'm doing these things for you. Like, they don't care in that moment. This is like my role. It's not just to be the dad that you know, is the sports dad or the dad that's fun. Like there's also a place where mom is really good and mom might be the yes person more. But to have that balance. I'm not competing against my wife for I'm not going to do those things.

Chris Braden 4:41

Todd Burnham 4:42
And I see a lot of parents though, you know, they're Disney dads or moms right and it's always fun and that's not to me that's

Chris Braden 4:50
That's not real life.

Todd Burnham 4:51
That's not real life and I don't I want them to experience challenges should I'm just really focused on that and also knowing when like Clara, she had horseback riding and she's just a baller little athlete. And so we had elevate lacrosse practice last night, and I pick up, I got Mae, and we go and pick up her friend. And I'm driving and they're like, is is Clara coming? And I texted Katy. And I'm like, No, it's okay. It's okay, if she doesn't want to, because I don't want her to get burned out, right? It's the end, it's the end of the season. They're just, you know, they're running around, they're doing just running. And she was just on a horse for an hour, I want her to enjoy the experience and not not be like, all aggro and like, oh, it becomes a job. Like, those aren't things that to me, are, that's not my job, right? It's the you got to find those places and those points. And so I don't know, I'm kind of rambling and trying to know, it's trying to figure this stuff out.

Chris Braden 5:49
You know, we talked about it last week. And I have a kind of a different view of it. Now that my daughter's are older, and we get a talk about, like the olden times, you know, when bedtime, dinner time, rides to practice and stuff like that. And it's cool, because like I said, it is a gut punch when it happens. But they always remember. I mean, they will remember the little things that you did. And the funny thing is that as a parent, you think about remember when I got you your first car, like big events and stuff. But that's not really what you talk about. It's always like the little things, which is cool, but you don't know that when you're in it.

Todd Burnham 6:24
Well, but and that's the thing, what I'm trying to learn is to remember those things like these pocket, these podcasts helped me, it's not just

Chris Braden 6:31
It's like therapy, again.

Todd Burnham 6:32
It really is, you know, and so I'm listening to you. And I really take pride in learning from other people's experiences, like we talked about movies,

Chris Braden 6:40

Todd Burnham 6:41
you can do anything you can, like, you know, learn from anything if you have your mind open to it. And so I think about those things, and I want to in those moments where normally I'd get frustrated, I'm kind of just settling in and trying to find my new voice and just things I'm spending more time doing that I'm spending more time just being present, you know, I have this this book that's written and it's not done yet. And I can't do anything with it. Because I haven't done these podcasts. Like literally, so I'm, I could be doing that. And I'm, I'm feeling I'm listening to myself, and I'm like, it's not ready. I'm just not ready to do that yet. So it's a constant, like rough drafts. Everything is a rough draft.

Chris Braden 7:28

Todd Burnham 7:28
You know, and I'm, so this is an interesting time for me, and kind of transitioning out, but also coming in heavy at times, like you just saw earlier. And then just finding it and going with it not forcing something that isn't it's the wine isn't ready. Well give it some time to breed like we talked about last time. So it's it's an interesting time. It's, I was talking to this this dad yesterday at practice and, and even backing away from coaching and just being present, you know, so I was talking to this dude, and he's just a really good guy and his daughter moved here from Long Island. And that's like a lacrosse hotbed.

Chris Braden 8:09
Oh, yeah.

Todd Burnham 8:10
And, and I was saying, you know, like, yesterday, I you know, it's really fun when I get out and get to go to Whole Foods. Like, okay, does anyone need anything? Um, I'm ready to leave now. You know?

Chris Braden 8:23
I'm buying the Baja burgers for everybody.

Todd Burnham 8:25
Right? Like, what would you like, and so and then, and then getting into a trying to find like a rhythm with my wife and I being home and she has her thing that she's doing. And I find myself just walking around aimlessly. It's like, okay, what can I do? Right, so I wanted to do a quick shout out to someone I grew up with. And when I moved to Fayetteville-Manlius I started playing lacrosse late, right. But there was always this one player that I ended up playing with Nathan Sprong. Nate is his dad was a guidance counselor. And I played with him at FM, he ended up playing at Empire State Games. Oh, cool. And excellent, just such a smooth player. And he went to Georgetown, and he reached out and said he really liked the podcast. Oh, that's cool. It was really cool. And you know, it's it was just nice connecting with him. He coaches at St. Xavier in Ohio. I think they won the state championship, just a just a lacrosse junkie like myself, but was always like, you know, kind of like that. The skill level was what I was always trying to reach, you know? And I think you need those people. And I told him that I said, Nate, you're, you're always so smooth, you know, and his left hand was just always so I'm like, damn, I gotta practice more. So shout out to Nate. I appreciate you listening and I'm really happy that you liked it. So...

Chris Braden 9:41
That's cool because like in the golf biz, when you have guys like that, that have something special that they can do or teach. Those are the guys you bring in for a day.

Todd Burnham 9:51

Chris Braden 9:52
You know what I mean? Just be like, Hey, man, just show how you do this.

Todd Burnham 9:55
Totally. And like it goes to you know, the concept of playing up. You know, I mean, now is Always trying to, you know, raise my game and I remember, I remember in sophomore year, he and another player were asked to go play in the varsity.

Chris Braden 10:08

Todd Burnham 10:08
And I think he actually scored a goal and playing it FM in the varsity as a sophomore is an extremely rare thing.

Chris Braden 10:15
Sure. Got a good bunch of upperclassmen.

Todd Burnham 10:18
It's a talent pool, you know, so when you get asked to play up, which Nate did, I was like, ah, that faded me.

Chris Braden 10:25
Little motivation?

Todd Burnham 10:26
Oh yeah. So I mean, like, that was that's the kind of stuff that motivates me. Yeah. Oh, and so it was really cool. hearing from him. And he's just turned into, you know, just by all accounts is to living a great life. So I'm proud of him.

Chris Braden 10:40
That's cool. So getting back to change a little bit, you've we've talked about this, how you guys dealt with the pandemic, and it was cool. I just got to listen in on one of your marketing meetings, kind of obviously, I only heard your end. And it's funny, because I've been in a ton of these meetings.

Yeah. And Frank Kern says that a bunch of the internet gurus always say, you know, you got to spend to win.

Todd Burnham 11:04

Chris Braden 11:05
And the way you were talking about how you were doing your advertising, and what's going on in the marketplace, right now, was so forward thinking. Also, it kind of resonates with everything you've said, in the podcast, it's playing to win, and it's not playing scared. And that's a change you're going through right now kind of changing how you're marketing and things like that. Moving buildings, you came here today to go look at a possible new place that you're probably going to buy. When do you know it's time for a change? Like when you're in a business? Is there a timeframe? Do you let things marinate? I know we talked about, you're going to kind of step back a little bit from the firm. And that was something you thought about for a long time. But you made the decision instantly.

Todd Burnham 11:51

Chris Braden 11:51
Like kind of what's your process with that?

Todd Burnham 11:53
That's interesting. So I received a text from someone today saying that real estate, and divorces are the things that are up.

Chris Braden 12:02
I heard the same thing about real estate for sure.

Todd Burnham 12:05
So and it resonated with me, and then it caught my my attention. I did a little bit of research. And and I think the I remember reading something maybe like a couple weeks ago about injury law. And I, I am focused so much on an injury law, just because like we've talked about, I believe we are the best at what we're doing.

Chris Braden 12:26

Todd Burnham 12:26
Right? And so if if there is a then the way that injury law works, what my understanding is of it so far, and I'm going to break this barrier, but it's you got to spend twice as much as your competitor.

Chris Braden 12:40

Todd Burnham 12:40
All the billboards, all the TV ads, like that's how you grow.

Chris Braden 12:43
That's how they do it.

Todd Burnham 12:44
That's how they do it. And then I started researching and we went into we took a little bit of a deeper dive with our, our marketing person was Sarah and Anthony and Zach, two dudes that we work with. And they were looking at talking about the ad spend, and that we're only reaching about 46% of the people.

Chris Braden 13:02

Todd Burnham 13:02
And so my initial thing to Sarah was, let's double the ad spend.

Chris Braden 13:06

Todd Burnham 13:07
Let's double it all.

Chris Braden 13:08

Todd Burnham 13:08
And she's like, easy, Buck Rogers. Like, we can only do so much. And so it just kind of resonated with me. It felt right. And I and then I have someone like Sarah, on the other side saying, Okay, I know Todd said this, but we're also about quality.

Chris Braden 13:26

Todd Burnham 13:26
So I see an opportunity. I want to jump on it. Go all in.

Chris Braden 13:30

Todd Burnham 13:31
Burn the ships. Yeah. And, and there's also some nuance to it. And you also I care about the people in intakes that I don't want them overburdened and overrun. And you want quality cases that you can really help people with? And not necessarily it's not a volume game, right?

Chris Braden 13:47

Todd Burnham 13:48
So it's just a numbers thing. And so that's why you have a team. That's why I'm able to kind of stick take a step back because I have Sarah who's like, okay, Todd, I hear you. Great.

Chris Braden 13:59

Todd Burnham 14:00
Thank you, Sarah, you heard me so seek to be seek to understand before being understood.

Chris Braden 14:05

Todd Burnham 14:06
When those rules communication, one on one, or one on one. And so we found a happy medium, we're going to we're going to look at the data and see what it looks like. And also, you know, when you have a quality website that we do, that's your first impression and so, all these things working together, and I've never been here before Chris, I don't. I don't know what the next move is.

Chris Braden 14:26

Todd Burnham 14:26
Except that you have to just kind of take a step back, breathe a little bit. I've gotten to page two of my book of 10% happier how to meditate like I'm on page two people. It's happening.

Chris Braden 14:42
Little print man. So it's like ten pages really.

Todd Burnham 14:46
So, it's just kind of feeling it and it's going with your gut and and the more you do it, the more in tune you are with your numbers and the business, the better. And so I'm not relying on these He's other marketing agencies to tell me and I think that's the most important thing is owning your business.

Chris Braden 15:08

Todd Burnham 15:09
Not delegating ownership of the knowledge of your business to that. So that's what we're doing. It's just kind of, you're gonna find a happy medium. And, and I want, I want the firm to be really successful as I leave and give them opportunities to grow. And this is my strength is like reading the tea leaves and I see it the way that we do it is really effective. And, and we have people on the other end that care. So it's really hard to care when you have double the cost.

Chris Braden 15:41

Todd Burnham 15:41
So there's this, you know, it's you never sacrifice the quality. And thankfully, Sarah slapped me a little bit and he's like, okay, that's crazy talk. Do you realize what that will look like? I'm like, Yeah, okay, fine.

Chris Braden 15:53
But I will say, I will tell you this, because you're always willing to make a move after you've thought it through. And I think Sarah, and I've experienced this firsthand. She's good at phasing in your idea, and maybe helping you bring that idea into fruition. So yeah, I think it's great team.

Todd Burnham 16:14
A little clarity.

Chris Braden 16:14
Honestly. Yeah, definitely. She does a great job.

Todd Burnham 16:17

Chris Braden 16:18
with that. I think the last thing I want to talk about on change is, let's say you've made a decision to change. I mean, maybe it was a vendor, an employee, maybe it was just a contract a software, whatever it is, when you've changed, how long does it take you to decide, that was a bad idea, and be able to pivot back, because that's the hardest part for people to, to just own kind of like a mistake. You're like, Okay, that was bad. We need to go back and do this.

Todd Burnham 16:50
Yeah, over and we talked about things I think we talked about this last week was is, is knowing that if you have if something's not working, then you've got to be in tune with it, and you make a change, right? It's taken me a lot less time when we talked last week about, you know, if you know, someone's not working out, and you're waiting six months, you're gonna have six months of crap

Chris Braden 17:13

Todd Burnham 17:13
that you're gonna have to fill like fix. So it's

Chris Braden 17:16
More problems

Todd Burnham 17:17
More problems. And, and you don't want that. So it's, so you have to have these core values. And ours is you want to keep getting better, and you have good work ethic.

Chris Braden 17:26

Todd Burnham 17:26
I don't care what your grades are all that stuff. And so if I see that, like, we did a change recently, I think it was probably like, a month and a half ago, we went with a marketing company. Just doing with Facebook ads, like we're just learning as we're going. And the attention to detail was missing. Again, we've gone

Chris Braden 17:45
There's a lot of that with social advertising.

Todd Burnham 17:47
Oh my god sighs So it's It pisses me off. It's like, I feel taken.

Chris Braden 17:53

Todd Burnham 17:53
And then I take it a little, probably a little too, personally. And, and that's the benefit of working with someone that you trust. I'm like, Hey, Sarah, I got a bad vibe. I got red flags. This is not working for me. What are your thoughts? I agree with you. Let's give them a let's give them another week.

Chris Braden 18:12

Todd Burnham 18:12
And so when that happens, then then she's on notice. I'm on notice. We're both kind of like, we're feeling it together. And then bam, if it after that week, if we're like, yeah, this just doesn't feel right. guys suck. These guys suck. We're out. Yeah. And then you know, and it's like, okay, let's recoup the investment. Because I don't like feeling like I got taken.

Chris Braden 18:32

Todd Burnham 18:33
And and the people that we dealt with, they were fine. Like, they're like, yep, we agree. It's not a good fit for us either. Okay, right. It was like, we're just too big for them. And honestly, it was, we have a lot more going on than they're able to handle. Another one was did I ever tell you about the time we got we were sued by an SEO company?

Chris Braden 18:52
Oh, we did talk about that. In Season One a little bit, I think.

Todd Burnham 18:55
Yeah. So it was a company. And I cancelled after like, six weeks.

Chris Braden 18:59

Todd Burnham 19:00
And I said, You guys just you forget you're spelling my name wrong.

Chris Braden 19:03
Right. They're like dude this takes a year to work.

Todd Burnham 19:06
Yeah, no, it doesn't.

Chris Braden 19:06
Just stick with me.

Todd Burnham 19:07
Six weeks. I'm like, we're out. And they sued us for like the entire, like, $100,000. And, and I'm like, alright.

Chris Braden 19:09
Suing an attorney?

Todd Burnham 19:15
Yeah, yeah. And he... Yeah. And so the we ended up, we ended up countersuing.

Chris Braden 19:21
Of course you did.

Todd Burnham 19:22
Of course, then this is the level that we've gotten to that. You're also protecting a reputation,

Chris Braden 19:29

Todd Burnham 19:29
and your name. Right? So we went in, we did the first trial, and we won, and we won our side. But we spent so much time on that, that I went and did it again. And we sued them directly for a malicious prosecution and all these other things.

Chris Braden 19:48
Oh Lord, God.

Todd Burnham 19:48
Yeah. Like five times damages we settled. So and that's our civil department. So this company, made like I in the beginning, I'm like, Okay, let's just cut our losses, I don't want money back, let's just move on. And the guy's just like no, and it was a really bad experience, I think for for them, right? But at the same time, it was a learning one because we kind of developed what our principles are.

Chris Braden 20:20

Todd Burnham 20:20
And we also got better, like, we got better in the process. So change even comes with your attitude and approach towards business.

Chris Braden 20:27

Todd Burnham 20:28
There are certain times when you're like, Alright, your first loss is your best loss. And there's other times where that doesn't feel right. We just spent 100,000 defending something that was BS, and, and they actually, like, they created facts. And then if you're, you're, in my opinion, representing something, and or you're representing a position that was baseless. And I felt pretty good that we were going to win that second one.

Chris Braden 20:55

Todd Burnham 20:55
I said, Let's do it, you go all in, and it worked out. So I don't know how that works to change, but it just kind of made me think about that, that you know,

Chris Braden 21:02
That's a part of change. That's the reaction to change. Because those are some of the potholes you're gonna step into. You don't know what's gonna happen.

Todd Burnham 21:09
You can't have fear. But as long as you feel good about what you've done, and the way that you've handled it, I'm not here, this isn't based on ego, I'm not trying to like pretend I'm the smartest guy in the room. I'm not. But I know my business.

Chris Braden 21:21

Todd Burnham 21:22
And I made a mistake by hiring that firm. They didn't do their job, I cut bait, even though having a year contract, which most of these companies require.

Chris Braden 21:30

Todd Burnham 21:31
And it just didn't feel right. And I didn't sleep, that's a real big indicator for me. If I'm stewing at night, and it's three in the morning, and I still can't sleep, I have to do something.

Chris Braden 21:41

Todd Burnham 21:42
Either. Go talk to a therapist.

Chris Braden 21:44

Todd Burnham 21:45
And try to like figure it out. But I think over time you get the you can understand where your values are as a business and as an owner of a business and you want to inspire people and also not be fearful false evidence appearing real. So it's a process and it comes over time. And I'm happy with and it helps when you have just a badass civil litigation department.

Chris Braden 22:09
Yeah, it sounds like it.

Todd Burnham 22:11

Chris Braden 22:13
Oh, yeah, that that company was not smart. They should have looked at had a little bit more info if they were doing their job, right. They probably would have known this. I guess.

Todd Burnham 22:21
They, I mean, the thing is, man, like you try to say, Hey, man, like you didn't do X, Y, and Z. This is a contract that you created, like, I didn't have any input in it. Like I just, I looked at it, I reviewed it, they signed it. And then they're like, Well, you know, we just feel strongly that we're gonna be successful like ah homie. Let's do this.

Chris Braden 22:37
It's on like Donkey Kong. Oh, I guess the last thing that on the change I want to ask you about because obviously, we all know you're going to step away a little bit. There's going to be other people in charge, you're still going to have a hand in what's going on. How are you doing with that right now? Is there any like, trepidation fear? Are you excited? Like kind of? How's that all marinating with you right now?

Todd Burnham 23:00
I feel like I'm in no man's land.

Chris Braden 23:02

Todd Burnham 23:03
I honestly feel somewhat rudderless. You know, I'm just a ship, and there's no storm, it's just calm seas. And I feel like I need to go somewhere. I need to be doing something. And, and I'm not. And I think that's my lesson.

Chris Braden 23:18

Todd Burnham 23:19
When I'm trying, I think I have to get really comfortable with this and, and be open to my intuition of what, like, I could be focusing on this on the book. And I'm just not, and I'm not pushing it.

Chris Braden 23:30

Todd Burnham 23:30
Because it's not ready. I need to do this next season. Because there's more stuff that I think, you know, the book, I want to be able to give examples of where I failed in every chapter.

Chris Braden 23:41

Todd Burnham 23:41
So you can learn from my failures. And, and that's what I've been talking about. Like, even with Moneyball, like, the thing we talked about last week, so I'm, I'm trying to get comfortable with the silence. And there's some it's not fear, because I, I'm confident that something's going to come.

Chris Braden 23:59

Todd Burnham 23:59
And what I've realized over this time is things that I don't want to do. I don't want to run a new lacrosse program that we started.

Chris Braden 24:06

Todd Burnham 24:07
I want to be a dad.

Chris Braden 24:09

Todd Burnham 24:09
I want to watch it. So I'll help I'm feel like I'm consulting in a lot of places with people.

Chris Braden 24:13
You kind of are.

Todd Burnham 24:14
And I think consulting makes sense. Like, I'm passionate about running a business and running it the right way. And, you know, helping people kind of learn from my mistakes. But other than that, I'm I'm like, Okay, now what? That's where I'm at. I'm just, I don't have I don't have any answers right now. And it's pretty fascinating. And I'm, I'm getting okay with it.

Chris Braden 24:38
Does your wife have any answers for you?

Todd Burnham 24:40
I think my wife's getting pretty sick of me. Pretty sick, like I, you know, she is she is I'm like, Hey, what's up? What's up still here, just here. You know, it's, it's, uh, you know, she's gonna meet me over at the space later. And, you know, it's you know, I go workout and I come home, I bring the kids to school every day.

Chris Braden 25:02
I used to love doing that. That was one of my favorite things.

Todd Burnham 25:04
I love it. It's great. Unless we're late, then I'm like resident dick.

Chris Braden 25:06

Todd Burnham 25:07
You know? Like,

Chris Braden 25:08
I used to get irritated too.

Todd Burnham 25:09
Yeah, I don't want to be that guy. So I'm trying to like, and that's the thing, like, those are those moments where I'm just kind of keying into it. I'm not, I don't have anywhere to go. So try to make the ride enjoyable. Exactly. Every day we pull in. We try to the principal's John Souter. And we play stump the suitor. So we have to do like the COVID Waiver. And you have to like, say, didn't have a fever and everything. And we drive by the line, and he's out there. And he checks to make sure that you filled out the form, right. And we always played music for him.

Chris Braden 25:40

Todd Burnham 25:41
Oh, so this past week, I, it was like Eddie Van Halen stuff, you know? And I'm, like, I'm trying to like those moments.

Chris Braden 25:48
Engage him. Yeah.

Todd Burnham 25:49
And so those are the things like I think that I can do a lot more of is just making sure that the experience that my kids are having is memorable. And not that Oh, yeah. I remember when dad stopped working as much it was. He was kind of a pain in the ass like, I don't want that. And those are the things I'm learning. I'm trying to get comfortable in my new skin, and I'm somewhat rudderless, but I'm

Chris Braden 26:15
But you're heading in the right direction.

Todd Burnham 26:17
I'm heading in a direction and I'm looking forward to that. That inspiring thought that says, ah yes that's what you're going to do!

Chris Braden 26:26

Todd Burnham 26:27
It's not here yet, so we'll just keep doing the podcast until it pops up.

Chris Braden 26:31
Good stuff, Todd.

Todd Burnham 26:32
Right on. Catch you later.

Hey, thanks for listening. Make sure you subscribe and until next time, keep getting better.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai