Todd Burnham 0:00
Hi, this is Todd Burnham. I am a licensed practicing attorney. But just because you're listening to me doesn't mean that I represent you. This is for informational purposes only if you're good with that, then let's roll.

Chris Braden 0:20
Season One was about how Todd Burnham started Burnham Law in his basement and built it to one of the most prestigious law firms in Colorado by thinking outside of the box and surrounding himself with the best lawyers and staff in the industry. Now, during a pandemic Burnham Law is still growing.How you ask? Walk toward the storm and face it head on, and you empower the people that help get you there, it's time to execute, it's time to make some lemonade. It's time to burn the ships. This is Deep Bench with Todd Burnham. Hey, Todd, how's it going, buddy?

Todd Burnham 0:58
Good, man. How are you Chris?

Chris Braden 0:59
I'm doing awesome. So we talked about kind of the changes coming in the firm in the last episodes, you are going to be empowering your staff to take it from here and move on. And you're going to kind of explain exactly what you're going to be doing and how you came to this decision?

Todd Burnham 1:21
Well, I mean, you know, like, as we talked about in the first season, you know, I don't have a business plan any. There's no business plan. There's like a feel, right. And so, throughout this past year before COVID, you know, I had this idea, this is what I wanted to do, because it made sense to me, there's no model out there for law firms, other than working 60 hours a week, and grinding for 10 years to become partners to make less money. That's really what it is. Right? And so people don't, you know, you could buy into law firms. And then at this point, I think people would have to buy in, and it'd be like, a million dollars, no franchise fee. So you know, it's like people will buy into partnership to share profits. And I'm like, it just didn't feel right. To me. I don't like the old school law firm models. I don't like mahogany desks, I don't like this dingy, stoic, I'm better than you crap that I that regularly permeates from law firms. And so when I see people like, oh, this person's a shareholder, and this person's and there's 50 of them, it doesn't make sense to me, it just never felt right. It didn't feel authentic. And so I've been doing that the whole time, like people make partner here. And there's more responsibility. And I wanted them to have something that is directly tied to their efforts, right. So you have like this baseline of what historically what we've done. And in my, you know, level of involvement. And there has to be a way there had to be a way in my mind to incentivize people to want to be here forever. That's really what it is stability, you know, like, we have a guy, Ben Brightwell, who just joined us, he's a super lawyer from Connecticut, just a really fantastic lawyer, fantastic person. I want that dude here forever. And he's not a partner. But that guy grinds he, he's the he has the mentality of what I'm what I've been looking for regularly. And most people, you have other people that are different, like Heidi, who is exceptional at what she does. And she also relates really well to people. Everybody has different traits. And how do you how do you value that? And then the partners that we have, what are their strengths? What are their weaknesses? Who is who was stuck by fear, during COVID, who wasn't? And so it's this been this progression of what I my vision for the firm. And then I looked at I kind of looked at the different segments, they said, are our lawyers better than others? Yes. Okay. Are our paralegals better than everyone else? Since I yeah, I believe that I believe that with the lawyers and the paralegals that what we do is we do it at a higher level, add more value. And I said, Okay, what about the intakes? What, like the first impression of people? Are we the best at that?

Chris Braden 4:11
Right.

Todd Burnham 4:11
And I absolutely believe that I don't think there's a better group of people than our intakes department of listening to people and helping them and getting their minds right on the phone, and letting them know that there is help. And then the hardest part was the marketing piece, you know, and, and that's what I've been doing and being having like the new website and the authentic message, and authoritative way. And, and we we've gone through so many different third parties that I've made so many mistakes of trusting different people. And then finally having it in house and this is a prime example is Sarah. Sarah is our communications director. And so with Sarah, I had I've been working with her for a year and finding different partners for Google ads, finding different parters for organic, and an all you're doing in those moments is, is realizing that, okay, we're gonna give this a shot and know when to leave. And I have left at least five. And finally, I think we found someone, a third party person that does, you know, our organic marketing. And I sat back and that was like, the last piece for me was behind the lawyers. How, how much do I trust, Sarah? That's really what it came down to for me. And I think she was just so intelligent in the way that she is. owned this, this piece while having childcare issues, while grinding, like I am, you know, the same kind of situation at home. And it kind of solidified it for me, I said, everything's in place. And so if everything is in place, what is my goal? Right? What is my goal? What is the thing that I want to achieve? Is it I want to make more money? Is it that I want to have more time? Is it that I want to travel? Is it that I want to grow this? And I sat back and I said, I don't I have the people? What is their vision? What do they want to do? And so during that time, also, like, I heard from Eric, and he was giving me some ideas. Eric Amat y Leon is a partner of mine in domestic relations. And he was giving me ideas about how to be more efficient, with the cases that we have and add more value constantly trying to get better. And Stephanie's like, why aren't we in California? Why aren't we growing this in a way that is responsible, but also we can help more people and grow the firm. And I just, I it kind of hit me on like, they have a vision that that is not necessarily what I'm going for anymore. And it's not my place to make those decisions anymore. Because I see a different vision for what my life is. And I think my strengths are really adding value and giving good ideas from a 30,000 foot view, compared to what they're doing on a daily basis and seeing, you know, their boots on the ground. And and when that happened, and like I said, was Sarah and adding Aaron, as a civil partner, I realized that you know what, I'd like to do more consulting, and actually focusing a little bit more on on some personal injury. Like with Randall and Chris Gilbert. You know, we, we just had another, you know, six lawyers, again, for this year were named Super Lawyers. And I'm like, these people are excellent at what they do, what is their vision, right. And so, are they all in? Has everyone bought in? We had a couple of lawyers leave. And I thought about that. And I'm like, people want to start their own firm. I said, Okay, so why would people want to stay here and not start their own firm? Like I tell people all the time, like, you want to start your own firm, I totally support you. How do I keep you here? And it comes down to sharing profits. And in a model that incentivizes them, they can make so much profit by continuing to be the best at what they're doing. And to me, then I realized that I was like, Yeah, that's what we're gonna do. Done.

Chris Braden 8:06
You talked about were some of the people, some of the partners want to expand elsewhere.

Todd Burnham 8:12
Yeah.

Chris Braden 8:12
Don't you feel like not having to hold the reins o hard is a form of leadership as well?

Todd Burnham 8:19
Well, I mean, it's, it's trust.

Chris Braden 8:21
Yeah.

Todd Burnham 8:21
And so when you delegate to someone, and they fail, you lose trust. And I can't remember the last time that I've delegated to the people that I've mentioned, and it wasn't something that I I disagreed with, I've always agreed with what, like Sara's mind the way that she's evolved into this position. I'm like, I would do exactly what you were doing. So why do you need me? Right? I trust you, Stephanie. I mean, she, five years ago, Stephanie was not the person that is so fascinating, because she's come so she's come full circle, so much into my vision of what I think this firm is and can be, and still maintained the person that she is, and always will be, that is really hard to do. And so it's just, it's a natural, she's a natural, and the other partners that I have in different divisions, they're, they're different, and that they bring different value at a different level. And so I and I asked myself, is Stephanie the person that I trust completely, to maintain this vision and keep the quality of what we're doing? And it was just so easy? I'm like, of course, yes. I mean, anybody that meets her, she's the best Domestic Relations attorney I've ever met. She's the best litigator. I've met and spy one of the best people I've met. So who better to who better to lead a new wave of new way of thinking the way that I've created it, but has been emphasized and enhanced by everyone else's opinion. Like, I want to know what I want, I want her to continue to listen and listen to what the what value is for our lawyers, and how can they, like continue to have a voice. And it's by making partnerships, something that's really valuable. And that means me stepping aside and leaving it to people that I trust. And that comes after a long time of reflection and observation. And at some point, you just say, yes,

Chris Braden 10:30
It's funny, if you go back and listen to the podcast we did, we had Stephanie Randall on there, and she talked about working for you. And then she left for a short time and went for a more traditional office in an atmosphere, and she missed everything that she had at Burnham Law and her coming back. And I think, you know, that is invaluable to kind of have that different knowledge of how other places do it, and then she sees your vision, and I agree with you. And for a person that has bought in, she's bought in 100%,

Todd Burnham 11:07
If she if she didn't, I would, I wouldn't be able to step back, right, you know, I wouldn't be able to exit and this this way, and define someone like that, you have to attract it. And to attract it, you have to be willing to look at your weaknesses and try to get better at them, you know? Sure. So I've had millions of weaknesses that I that I've had to get better at, and also know where my strengths are, and where my weaknesses are. And my strengths are the big picture. But the vision that changes as I get older, and as I get more, I get experiences that aren't all 100%, all in to a point where it's hurting my my health.

Chris Braden 11:49
Sure.

Todd Burnham 11:50
I mean, I had Guillan-Barre in 2014. And that was related to stress. And I just grind it that hard. And it's not for everyone. But I I sacrificed that level to get to that point, and also was human enough to realize that I needed to make changes. And I think I've come full circle in that. And it's the right time to do it where these people, these these talented people, this team of people can I trust them to take it to a different level, and do it in a way that's reflective of the service that we provide. And it's pretty ballsy move to do it. And it's scary. But I'm also I want to experience life. I don't want to just be dictated by it.

Chris Braden 12:30
Yeah, exactly. One thing, like being in the media, law firms kind of law firms and car dealers, drive regular major media, what I talk about that is like TV, and radio. And you know, if you watch TV during the day, you're gonna see probably like three different law firms with the same message. Yeah, all day long. Radio is, is similar. And in the last episode, you talked about another thing you're leaving them is that Burnham does the marketing. It's interesting to see how you've evolved that way. Because I saw some of your marketing early on a few years ago, and how it's evolved to where you had the billboard that said, divorce sucks, but your lawyer shouldn't? Yeah, you've evolved that website into something that's really spectacular and identifies your brand. How did you decide not to go the regular way with the marketing where you're just spending millions of dollars on radio or millions of dollars on TV, but deciding to be smart? And using the internet? Getting that organic ranking, buying the the exact spot you needed on Google? How did you decide to do that? And then when the website came through, you said it earlier you said that? That was kind of like it came full circle. Now it looks like exactly what I want it to be.

Todd Burnham 13:59
And I've been working on that website for, you know, probably since I started I've gone through five iterations of a website. It never was what I envisioned. And when we gave it over to Sean Baldwin and Wondercrate with Sarah, it was really the concepts when I met with him and she and I met with him it was, you know, it goes back to Napoleon Hills thinking grow rich. You surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. I interviewed other people for websites and they all kind of asked me what I wanted. And then finally, when I met with Sean, he said, I've examined you, I've researched you. This is what it reflects to me. And it was basically Nike in a suit. Right? And I'm like, That guy it has it. I would never have thought of that. And so at some point I ceiling out of my my capacity to grow it to grow it and I have to rely on people that I trust that get it I'm here to tell you 90% of the people that we meet are going through the motions, there's that 10% that you have to find, that are actually invested on getting better themselves. And they want to grow their brand, or they want to grow who they are. And if you find those people you catch on because like with Sean, it was, Oh, this guy's up and coming. He's a grinder and he gets it. And it's not like he's gonna do this website for other people, because it's really tailored to what we're about. She can't say like, some other law firm can't come in and say like, I want to do it Burnham's doing because you it's a it's a fraud. It's phony, it's not who you are, you've got to find out who you are and what your culture is and what you're about. And then be authentic to that you can sell that, because it's truth. And so like, to that extent, all of those pieces and learning those things over time. It's, it's not the, I'm going to spend twice as much on personal injury. And that's how you get in front of people. I just refuse to do it. I'm not going to do billboards. I'm not going to do like these TV ads. I would much rather do a really cool YouTube video. That's fun, but also informative, like Dollar Shave Club.

Chris Braden 16:12
Sure.

Todd Burnham 16:13
You know?

Chris Braden 16:13
100%, I get that.

Todd Burnham 16:14
Right? Like, that's the kind of stuff that really interests me, because it's interesting, it's engaging, and it's also authoritative. Sure. And I haven't come up with it yet. No, but that's like, where my mind is at. And I think that when that happens when I'm when I take a step back from the management of the big firm, and start focusing more, just on the side with like, helping Randall and Chris develop that kind of what is that message? Or helping Aaron develop that, you know, with civil, like, what is his message, and but it's not my message, it's their message. My message has been done. It's the website, it's who we have now, what is your identity? How do you make it yours?

Chris Braden 16:55
Sure.

Todd Burnham 16:56
And that is something that I'm learning to do.

Chris Braden 16:59
So I did talk to Sean before and it was funny, he said something to me, he goes, "You know what, I think I have a good idea who you are, you're just gonna have to trust us." So I'm exactly I'm pretty sure he said kind of the exact same thing to you. How hard was it for you the first time to be like, alright, just go do it.

Todd Burnham 17:19
Impossible. Right? He gave us this. He gave us this. It's kind of like a deck sheet where it's like a page. And it says, This is what we see. Right? And there was a picture of Muhammad Ali, and it went underneath it was Float like a butterfly sting like a bee. And I'm like, I love that. And then above it was this millennial in like this, you know, outfit that he looked like, just goofy. And I'm like, Dude, this is not who we are. And he said, I understand that. It's just a concept. We're doing something different. So that's your, it's kind of who you're marketing to. And I'm like, I don't know about that. And he's like, trust me. And I'm like, Okay, fine. And what he came up with, and we've tweaked it, yeah. I mean, you try to do something that's that ranks on the website. But more importantly, is the user experience. And it's about content marketing, that includes SEO, it's not SEO, that includes content. It's the user experience, is it an authoritative message that you are also you want to scroll through because it's somewhat entertaining? And that's, that's something that I think we're ahead of, like you talked about getting ahead. I think we're ahead on that. You look at every other website, that for law firms, there is nothing like our website, and that's scary. And you're like, scary, exciting. Well, I mean, yeah, scary, exciting. But there's also people are gonna be out there like, well, this for this website doesn't look like everyone else's. So there must be something wrong with it. You always have that fear, right? It's not gonna be for you. I mean, they didn't make it on Squarespace. Exactly. Right. So I mean, like you you have these situations, and you have to like, and that's your personal growth, man, like, false evidence appearing real? Anytime you're afraid of it? Why?

Chris Braden 18:58
Yeah.

Todd Burnham 18:59
And so it all comes down to trust. People have to trust us when they're hiring us. I have to trust my people that I've hired, I have to trust the third parties, like Wondercrate in the website of how do I trust them. And trust is something that is earned over time. And, and even since we've had hiccups with the website afterwards, like, I've trusted it, like we were we were one week without Google ads.

Chris Braden 19:22
Oh.

Todd Burnham 19:23
You know? But our website carried us well, as people would go and they there's no, there's a low bounce rate, like she's not gonna leave. That's true. So even if organic was tight, so it's a, you're constantly trying to work on yourself and improve and trust in situations that I normally would just take over. Right. Right. And that's hard, but and that allows me to step back.

Chris Braden 19:47
I think the interesting part about that site is it's a new way of saying things so like, you scroll down, you see a boxing glove, and if you're looking for an attorney, you're like, your mind goes okay, they're gonna fight for me. You didn't have to say it. Yeah, it's just there. Also, it's one of those things where it's, you make it easy for people to get a hold of you. Yeah, it's like a sales page, like the days of the old website where it's a catalog, those are dead.

Todd Burnham 20:16
Well, in a lot of lawyers still do that, because they're doing it, they're listening to like these big marketing firms that are doing it all the same way are all there with your competitors as well, you've got to find people that you trust, that are, that are doing it in a way that is so personalized to you that makes it unique and authentic. And if you're doing it with a major marketing firm, or something along those lines, that's not authentic, you're just you're just trying to get the the people to call you. But at that point, once they get a sense, they get to your website, what's your message?

Chris Braden 20:52
Sure.

Todd Burnham 20:53
Right, like, what are you trying to say? Just call us so we can make money off of you? Or is it this is what our values are? Does this resonate with you? Right? And if you're truthful about those things, you're not going to please everybody?

Chris Braden 21:06
No.

Todd Burnham 21:06
But you're going to be...

Chris Braden 21:07
That's impossible by the way.

Todd Burnham 21:08
It is impossible. And so that's where the fear comes in, like you want to be different? Absolutely, I want to be authentic. And if you can be authentic, and have a message that's authentic to you, and it's authoritative, then, you know, you got to stop worrying about the Google spiders, and that'll come, that'll come over time. So I just, I'm very, extremely content with what we have. And to make it anything more. It's, it needs the vision of the people that are leading the firm at this point, and it's not necessarily mine anymore, I've taken it. I've taken the firm where it needs to go. And I think I need to, and I know I need to, I want no need to do anything, I want to focus on doing things differently. Like from a personal injury level,

Chris Braden 21:57
Sure.

Todd Burnham 21:58
I want to, I want to do this have this podcast, you know, kind of create more thoughts for me on the book, you know, of you know, how to build a law firm, and then get out, like, how do you I want to keep adding value. And I want to spread a message that of authenticity and authority. And that's kind of where my head's at now, you know, check me next week, and I'll be like, I thought it was a great idea. We race it. No, no, I think it's, it's a it's exciting. And it's, and it's scary. And that's how I want to live.

Chris Braden 22:31
So you've left it in a great place, Sara's taken over the marketing, she's got your vision, she's been doing it and

Todd Burnham 22:38
And she has her own vision. Like she's, she's sure. I think she's smarter than me. I think she like, you know, I think that she gets it. And it has to be authentic. We're not doing any, you know, we're not trying to trick Google, we're trying to just be authentic and trust that people are going to research law firms. And they're going to compare sure if you compare law firms when I agree.

Chris Braden 23:02
And then so you got Sarah doing the marketing, Stephanie Randall, running things, you've got some great partners in charge of other areas, great intake people, great,

Todd Burnham 23:13
Great associates and senior associates, people that are coming up, like when I was talking about Lesley and Ben and, and Heidi, and you know, those and there's more, you know, it's just that those are the, I see them adding values, like with the intakes department, I think Ben Brightwell steps into my shoes and works with them. And because he's he's an amazing attorney who's authentic, and isn't be asking anybody, right? And so if he can be the person that's doing that, I just see him rising really rather quickly in the firm.

Chris Braden 23:43
And you did recruit him from the East Coast, man.

Todd Burnham 23:45
You know, Stephanie will take credit for this. But as I tell her all the time, even though you hired Ben, I hired you, therefore, I hired him.

Chris Braden 23:56
That makes sense, right?

Todd Burnham 23:56
It's logic, man. It's my logic, that that's the thing like when you when I see the things that are happening, and the decisions that are made are ones that I would have made?

Chris Braden 24:05
Yeah.

Todd Burnham 24:05
What am I doing?

Chris Braden 24:06
Yeah, I'm good.

Todd Burnham 24:07
I'm good.

Chris Braden 24:07
So that being said, so everything's running great. You've kind of set this up from the beginning without knowing it Friday, last week, it came to fruition. Yeah, it's not like you're going to go away, you're going to be available if they ever need you. But I guess the last question on this is, how much are you going to miss that day to day? Are you ready? Just the next step?

Todd Burnham 24:30
I'm gonna miss it, but I'm also someone that has committed to embracing change in my life.

Chris Braden 24:36
Sure.

Todd Burnham 24:37
You know? And if you told me 15 years ago, when I stopped drinking alcohol, that I would be taking a step back from a very, very successful law firm to go spend three months with my family and Kawaii.

Chris Braden 24:52
Yeah.

Todd Burnham 24:52
I would probably say that you are crazy. And the related the the change that has come like even is from 2050 to when I was getting sick all the time, because I was working so hard.

Chris Braden 25:03
Is that when you started working out by the way? I was wondering.

Todd Burnham 25:05
Yeah, yeah, it's like I made changes like that, you know, I hate to drop his name. But Tony Robbins, you know, he's always said, like, you want to make change in your life, you get a personal trainer, that's your first step. He does say that, yeah, so and I've done that, and I've committed to that, and I into supplements and vitamins and things and, and trying to just constantly get better. It's not, I'm not BSing here, like I I tried to live this way. And the things that I find that I struggle with now are that I'm, I was so depleted in so many areas, especially during COVID, that I would give 20%, to my family 20% to the firm 20% to improving this over here. And I was not giving all of it to the things that I was, was in front of. And, and I looked at it and I said, you know, what is my purpose and my purpose is to be a great husband and father. That's my purpose,

Chris Braden 25:58
Right.

Todd Burnham 25:58
And, and I can't do that, when I'm I have on my plate, all of these things having to do with the firm, like I can't spend any dedicated time really thinking about personal injury, and growing that in a way that's responsible and authoritative and authentic. And competing against these, you know, these billboards in these TV ads, when I'm running around after Archer, you know, like my son is running around wants to play with me like, and I don't want to be playing with my son thinking about this.

Chris Braden 26:29
Right.

Todd Burnham 26:29
And so that's the piece that you have to sometimes realize that the cup is full, take some things off of it change the way that you do it and create more space. And that's, you know, I'm just trying to stay true to that. And I have a lot of trust in the people and, and at the same time this is a, I think Burnham Law is an is a destination for lawyers that want to be the best at what they do and want to make money commensurate with their talent. And that is

Chris Braden 26:55
That's always nice. It's a novel idea, right?

Todd Burnham 26:58
But but but the there's so many stringent strings and attached to it that that you make you Okay, give me 10 years and I'll give you more money is not that's not truthful, that's not authentic. That's not like a no people centered or focused. And I said wait a second man, like this thing can grow so big, and and serve so many people, as long as you never lose the quality, that it's the obvious move because these people have committed Stephanie Randall had no guarantees, these partners had no guarantees that there was going to be any profit sharing whatsoever. They just believed in my vision, and they trusted me that I was going to do the right thing by them. And some people left because they just think they can do it themselves. And I applaud that. I know what it takes to build this right. You've got to be willing to bleed for it. You know, this is who's the Tasmanian devil that movie. Vinny Pazienza, Bleed For This.

Chris Braden 27:57
This is Oh, yeah, the boxing. Yes. Okay, I'm with you.

Todd Burnham 28:00
That is like, you have to want it that bad. And I just don't see people want to get that bad. The people that are here that have bled for it, during COVID Have, have stepped up, have earned it. Those people get it? This is me saying thank you. This is me saying, I want you to share in this now, you know, there was no guarantee Stephanie told me your like a year ago, she goes, I'm here for life no matter what. I don't care what you do, I believe in what you're doing. And when that happened when she said that to me, and she said it to me, like since then. I'm like, I'm gonna make you money. Yeah, that's my that's my

Chris Braden 28:37
Got a lot of it too. Because she's young.

Todd Burnham 28:39
She is and she can do this more better than I can. And so can these people that are coming up. So that is my that is like I didn't have a plan and that there what people stayed, people have stayed and and have now said even before this, you know, this shift and profit sharing, they're like, What can I do? I want to become a partner because this it's a great firm. Yeah, now it's, it's great. And you can make a lot of money doing it as long as you're the best at what you do, period. And that is a model that I've never seen the way that I've done it and I'm really psyched about it, it feels right to me and I'm excited for them. I'm so excited for the people at this firm now, because they're going to be able to make their own futures

Chris Braden 29:21
Well and I also think that you get to see something that you started grow and take it to parts or places that you never imagined and further than you could and I wanted to say this last thing on this I know one person that's excited to get to be spending a little bit more time with you I finally had the chance to meet your wife and she seems amazing and she seems really upbeat and and ready for this

Todd Burnham 29:47
You know it's funny we were talking about you should probably interview her like next week because I told him like hey you want to get interviewed? What's it like to live with a psycho? Yeah, that's kind of like

Chris Braden 29:57
She didn't disagree with you.

Todd Burnham 29:58
She didn't because like it's it's a different I mean this she is interesting. Katy is like, is the most patient, calm person. She's helping me with meditation again. She's that's just who she is.

Chris Braden 30:11
Right.

Todd Burnham 30:11
And I am running hot most of the time. Right? And she's not. So it's funny. I'm like it's in what I've had to try to curtail here is at the firm of like, okay, who's doing this? Who's doing this? I can't come back and say, Hey, you should respond to that teachers like, no, but I will when I'm ready. Okay. Why didn't you do it now? Because I didn't Todd. Okay.

Chris Braden 30:34
I had stuff to do.

Todd Burnham 30:35
Yeah, I mean, so but it's like, she's like, this isn't the firm. This is our family. So I'm coming into that.

Chris Braden 30:41
That's how they do it when they do it. And when they do it, right, my wife does that to me all the time.

Todd Burnham 30:44
Yeah, man, like, Yo, you're not managing me homie. Like, stop. So, and I'm looking forward to like, you know, I'm a little things man, like, I've, I want to, I want to just go surfing with my kids, I want to go surfing with my kids and, and give them an experience of you know, of Hawaii during pandemic and try to make lemonade. And I've gotten to the point where I'm able to do that, and, and being able to let go of certain things, and then really focus more on on that, like, I want to, I've coached people up for so long, that I don't think they need it anymore. And I'd much rather put my time and effort on my daughters and my sons then, and supporting them and giving them the lessons that I've learned in a way that's, that carries them and supports them on their path. And just giving them that, you know, just teaching them about competition in life and, and what it takes to succeed and practicing anything that you want to do really well it takes time. And and how bad do you want it you willing to bleed for this, and I'm, I'm ready for other people to bleed for it. And I'm ready to kind of take a step back and just enjoy a walk with my daughter's, you know?

Chris Braden 31:58
And you could go hiking horseback man. Like, I gotta be honest with you, it was so funny. Being a Colorado guy and going to Hawaii, you'd be on the, on the beach. And then next thing, you know, like, Hey, let's go for a hike all day up in the hills. Dude, it was like, the most amazing time. I mean, I'm excited. I mean, I'm sure I don't know, if your kids have been there or not, it's gonna be I have man, I'm so envious. Like, I am like, I just loved it there.

Todd Burnham 32:25
It's so fun. It's special. And, and it's a it's what a great gift for your family. And that's what I think of it, you know, and what a great gift for me to be able to, to step back and focus on them and, and really, like, see what boredom feels like a little bit. You know, like,

Chris Braden 32:42
I build that up, I'm sure.

Todd Burnham 32:43
We will. But I I look at these things. And I and I'm starting to get that burning desire inside of me to do other things, too. And just to like, you know, my wife said, oh, yeah, you retired. I'm like, That lasted a day, like, my mind is already like, well, I could do this, I could do that. And, and it's like, you know, do I want to build a lacrosse program? No, I don't, I just want to watch my kids play. I don't want to do those things anymore, that, that were like, you know, instead of going to Denver to play I want I want them to be here. And you know, so to help build that program. And, and instead, I've, I've listened to people and I'm like, you know, I just want to enjoy my kids growing up in a way that is responsible. And that, you know, they remember, you know that this is what your dad did. This is what your mom did. And I'm very fortunate. I'm feel very blessed.

Chris Braden 33:33
Well, you are blessed, Todd, man, thanks for sharing that with this. I'm hoping to get your wife on in the next couple of episodes. It might be to like if she goes deep dive in. I don't know, I know, we're gonna do a bunch of these. But I mean, maybe she might take a quarter of them or something. I don't know.

Todd Burnham 33:49
I think you know what I was thinking about this. And this... you and I've talked about two episodes. Right?

Chris Braden 33:53
Sure.

Todd Burnham 33:53
We've got 18 left. Yeah. All right. So I think that it's to add value to people that are listening. You know, the first year was like, really about like your mindset and building a team. And then when you have a team, how do you inspire them? But also what are the concrete things that you do? Like how do you become a better law firm? How do you become a better business? And I think a lot of that comes with practice that I've done, and implementing systems and policies and procedures that you follow that are foreseeable and reliable and stable. And, and that's what we have. So how do you grow a law firm to what it is right now? How do you build it in a way that's responsible? How do you handle how do you handle adversity? I don't know all those things come to mind. But I also I want to add value to people and, you know, it's one thing to motivate you. And if you've listened to it this far, then you're motivated enough, like what are you willing to do to like, achieve certain goals that you have in your life? And I think about those things, and now I'm thinking about the goals in my life and they they're changing a lot now and I think that's pretty cool to talk about.

Chris Braden 35:00
No, I'm with you. 100% Good stuff Todd.

Todd Burnham 35:02
Catch you later bro.

Chris Braden 35:03
Thanks, man.

Todd Burnham 35:06
Hey, thanks for listening. Make sure you subscribe and until next time, keep getting better.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai